Headache-inducing categorization

[estirose]

So, I am finishing/getting ready to post a fic on AO3.

It's got a science fiction premise - the pov character is a canon character that was deaged permanently and had to grow up again, has no real idea of their original life, is for all intents not the same as the canon character. They're attracted to the original's girlfriend/boyfriend, but there's no relationship there, the pov character is underage and the original's partner isn't about to date an underage version of the canon character.

I have no clue on whether to mark this gen or not, because while there is one-sided attraction on the part of the pov character, all actual relationships happened in the past.

Sometimes I wish my brain didn't go off on weird writing tangents. Particularly in fandoms I've been writing a lot in lately.

Comments

[reka]

I thought it was very nicely done. That sort of premise can really bother me, because when it's done badly it is really uncomfortable. Since I know you've read some Valdemar, I'll point out Vanyel/Stefen as an example of lost-love-but-not-anymore handled in a terribly squicky way. (Not that Mercedes Lackey is a terribly skillful writer in most ways, but the example holds as an example of a similarly tricky subject handled as "love makes everything suddenly okay."

Anyway, rambling about my addiction to questionable fantasy novels aside, I quite liked it. There's more you could explore, of course, but I think you handled what you did well.

[estirose]

I have to admit that I've not read that much Mercedes Lackey - mostly the one novel for Skif anf the two for Alberich, maybe the first in the 'Arrows' trilogy. Then I lost interest.

Not surprisingly, this Ziggy is currently exploring who he is, because I can't stop writing.

On the reaction front, what I did was try to figure what the others would do and react, and it came down to "try to make Ziggy's life less sucky this time around". But that background made Ziggy the character he was in RPM, the one with a really good heart and a really long rap sheet. This Ziggy is a really nice guy who's pretty law abiding, came from a stable background, and is not quite as low in self-esteem as canon-Ziggy reads to me. (Summer tried to give this Ziggy a little bit of zaniness by having him hang around Gem and Gemma, but all he got out of it was that it was okay for adults to own construction paper and use crayons. And that some people really liked taking things apart and blowing stuff up. And that Gem and Gemma tend to think weirdly.)

Of course,this Ziggy is now getting to the age where he really is starting to look like the Ziggy they knew, and for Dillon, this is especially hard, as he was closest to the original and he keeps expecting this Ziggy to act in ways that he doesn't. And since there are some small ways that Ziggy does act like his original (because of things picked up/ingrained before he was four, because those memories remain intact), it's a really frustrating for him to be around Ziggy right now. I think this would be true even for a non-slash relationship, as they were close friends, of course, in canon.

[reka]

I'm glad you stopped. Valdemar is my trashy comfort series, and sometimes I really hate that I love reading those books so much. Lackey has her favorite tropes, and sometimes they drive me nuts. The Last Herald-Mage Trilogy begins with a giant soap opera, and then in the last book he ends up with the reincarnation of his first love except without all the complex loyalties and then he dies and they go to live forever as lover trees until the Mage Winds books, which I don't recommend much because I think Lackey ruined Skif in them.

Yes! I liked that I could really see the differences, and that you emphasized that he's not canon Ziggy, and that he needs to be careful because he isn't. But he's still not completely unlike canon Ziggy, I think. Poor Dillon. How can you ever feel comfortable being around someone like that? It's not like amnesia or something, because he hasn't just forgotten things.

[estirose]

I enjoy it too, but I have to admit that I couldn't stand some things so I never read most of her stuff. (The one I can put my finger on is Myste. She bugs the hell out of me, and she's a character type I normally like....)

I'm glad that he's at least considerate enough to listed, or at least realize that things might start to suck very, very fast if he doesn't stop and think things through.

Gemma was right, in her way, because Dillon wanted Ziggy to grow up so they could be together again. But this Ziggy will never be the person he fell in love with, he's aware of this, doesn't make it any easier, especially as Ziggy gets older and is his own person. It's going to be really hard if/when he finds out this Ziggy is also attracted to him, because that makes things more complicated. Plus, Ziggy is underage.

[reka]

Myste's the sort I usually like, too. The problem with her, in part, is that she's very much a self-insert, and I'm not sure Lackey realizes the dangers of author insertion or even that making it blatant is generally frowned upon [source, if you want it]. My problem with her, too, is that her relationship with Alberich does not fit with the way he is presented in earlier books that are chronologically later.

Age is always a tricky issue. I'm sure Dillon did, because I think that'd be a normal reaction to the situation. There's no real comfortable way to address the situation.

[estirose]

Myste has always kind of read as a Mary Sue to me, so that makes sense. (I have to admit I do my share of inserts, but they tend to be one-line extras, not main characters, though I also have to be careful with certain canon characters that are close in personality, or they can take on aspects of me that shouldn't be there. Suzuki Mio of Kiva, for example.)

As for Dillon and Ziggy, I think everybody else would like to avoid the issue. Because Dillon is going to react to Ziggy still wanting him by trying and it has the potential to hurt him a lot.

(Of course, Summer would step in Dillon's way if he tried to restart/start a relationship by reminding him that this Ziggy is her fourteen year old, minor son, in hopes he remembers that this is not his Ziggy.)

[reka]

How much has Dillon been there for Ziggy as he grew up? That would have a pretty significant effect on how he sees Ziggy, I think. Knowing Ziggy is interested would mess him up, I agree, but what sort of relationship did he have with Ziggy while he was growing up? How present was he?

Summer needs to have a Talk with Dillon, I think.

[estirose]

Dillon played with Ziggy when he was really little, partly because he was right there. But after they defeated Venjix, Dillon went back to his loner tendencies to minimize the pain, though he checked back every so often. Ziggy mostly knows him as kind of the mysterious, protective guy who was his parents' teammate. Dillon would have been better off playing uncle like Summer wanted him to.

Summer is hoping Dillon, as an adult, realizes it's a bad idea before she has to play the "minor son" card. Scott & Flynn will grimly back her up, if needed.

[reka]

I wonder if Summer should (or would, since it could be considered invading her son's privacy) talk to Dillon beforehand. Scott, too, since he's had an equal part in raising Ziggy, it seems.

Dillon probably makes it worse by continuing to play that very appealing mysterious loner role.

[estirose]

It's a tricky issue (which is not helped by the role that Dillon is continuing to play, not at all). Summer is reluctant to invade Ziggy's privacy and hopes that all parties involved show common sense. Scott is more straightforward, because in some ways, this is going to cause a problem. I think Scott would be more likely to confront Dillon in anticipation of a problem, and Summer if it happens to become a problem.

[reka]

Would Summer share what Ziggy told her with Scott, or would she think of it as more of a mother-son conversation?

[estirose]

Not as a concern, I don't think, because she trusts Ziggy to think and to tell her there's a problem. She might mention it casually to Scott as something they might want to talk to Dillon about eventually, but she's shying away from actually telling Dillon that Ziggy's attracted to him because she knows how he's going to react even if Ziggy shows sense. In her mind, if she tells Dillon that Ziggy's attracted, she thinks that Dillon will pursue Ziggy even if Ziggy's basically decided it's not a good idea.

Incidentally, Flynn's solution to this whole thing is to toss Ziggy at Dillon so that Ziggy can get to know Dillon (therefore removing the mystery) and Dillon can be reminded that this isn't his Ziggy.

[reka]

I think there's something to be said for making them interact, but it would have to be carefully done, or it'll just end up being entirely ineffective if both parties are too embarrassed to interact with each other.

[estirose]

Hm.

Flynn would throw a party, but that wouldn't do much because they'd be able to avoid each other - Dillon because he again doesn't want to be hurt, and Ziggy because he doesn't want to hurt Dillon. And of course, Gemma's little talk included a few details that Ziggy will be very uncomfortable about upon seeing Dillon, because, apparently, she walked in on Dillon and the original Ziggy once, and she told Ziggy about it.

(I have this horrible image of Gemma, overhearing Flynn talking to Scott and/or Summer, deciding that it would be a really good idea to seat them together and then tell Dillon about Ziggy's feelings as she perceives them. Which is colored by the fact that she tends to have a skewed perspective of who the present Ziggy is.)

[reka]

I don't think it would be out of character for Gemma, so I'm just hoping that somebody realizes it could happen, or Flynn is persuaded to not throw this party.

[estirose]

Yes, because that would cause poor Ziggy to go weep/hide in the corner or something because he's so embarrassed. And then Dillon would probably get half his team having to stop him from chasing after Ziggy. And then the conversation would get incredibly more awkward.

(On the other hand, maybe it would persuade Dillon that Gemma's perception is... off.)

I also have an amusing perception of a much less embarrassing event where Gemma is stopped, Flynn gets Ziggy to stop blushing every time he sees Dillon, and sits the two of them down, telling Ziggy to tell Dillon all about how he's doing in school, his favorite subjects, etc.

[reka]

I hope Dillon wouldn't be quite as insane about it as his teammates think he will be.

[estirose]

He is stubborn. On the other hand, he isn't stupid. (In my head, since Summer and Scott would likely step in the way, his reaction would be "Lemme guess. We need to talk." And then go on to have a perfectly rational conversation about Ziggy. Who might even wander back from his corner because he's curious.)

(Which might even lead to a whole idea on how to demystify Dillon for Ziggy, and get Dillon used to the 'new' Ziggy - though that will still be hard. Flynn favors having Ziggy stay over with Dillon for a week so they can't avoid each other, but that's because my brain likes to go in weird directions.)