The young don't know manners

[estirose]

This is on someone else's review, but I'm commenting anyway, because I write the same pairing.

So, there's this person on fanfiction.net. He is called SpikeLightening. I'd contact him and lay out some words about etiquette for this person, but I don't see a way to do so on ffn, and in some ways this is public and a better way to have a conversation, instead of sniping on peoples' reviews.

So, a writer named Vetesse wrote the first chapter of an Power Rangers RPM fic, explicitly labeled as Dillon/Ziggy and slash. (Or at least it was when I read it.) This other person, in the middle of their review, stated "Second: The Ziggy/Dillon pairing is plain gross." Neither of them posted what Vetesse's reply to that was, so I don't know exactly what Vetesse said to SpikeLightening. SpikeLightening stated that "Vetesse is hateful, because I gave her constructive critizim in a review and just went wild and said I was hating on her which I was clearly not. Report him/her immediately!"

He also is anti-gay rights/gay marriage. (And from his profile, reads as very, very young.) As he states, "I also dislike homosexual/lesbian pairings! Don't let gay marriage be legal! Do your part to stop it!"

Um, so I have to say, why in the hell are you reading a Dillon/Ziggy fic?

That being said, there are some boundaries that I think one should never cross in reviews. Unless you're being hit by surprise pairing that you hate, if it's a clearly labeled pairing fic, you have no right to complain that you don't like the pairing. (This includes "I think this fic is nice, but you should have written X/Y instead of X/Z.") For example, When I read in Gokaiger fandom I don't read Joe/Marvelous fics (or Marvelous/Basco, or Sid/Joe) much because the pairing doesn't do much for me, but if I do read them, I'd never insist that the writer write something else. (The only time I'd ask someone to write a pairing/character they don't normally write is if they were doing a meme and clearly said "throw any pairing at me and I'll write a fic!" - and even then, I'd avoid asking for a character/pairing that I know the person dislikes. Just because I like Gai and pairing him with about anyone doesn't mean that everybody else does.)

Likewise, if someone writes a fic with a trigger and labels it and you read it, you shouldn't say "don't write this, this is triggering". (If they don't label, yes. But if they do....) I don't like certain kinks, they squick me the hell out, and if I run across a fic with a topic I don't like, I avoid it (as an atheist, I find "N converts to (fundamentalist) religion" at the very least cheesy and at worst downright offensive, so I don't read fics like that). Likewise, I try to label stuff I know is triggery. My fun and games is not your fun and games.

In other words, you can avoid a lot of flames by avoiding reading stuff you wouldn't enjoy; and if you have to review, don't flame for something that you knew was there going in. It should be blindingly obvious, but apparently it's not.

(And because this is an issue with me too - it took me quite a while to develop a thick skin when it comes to reviews - disagreement is not flaming. Disagreement is not hating. And I hope that the person who sparked this rant gets to be my age, he'll hopefully realize it.)

Comments

[thesecondbatgirl]

Ugh, that one. He's been posting "reviews" on a bunch of people's fics on ffnet. Weirdly, the only one of mine that he's commented on is a Mia/Kevin fic, to let me know that I'm writing the wrong pairing since Jayden/Mia is canon, not Kevin/Mia. I think I laughed for like an hour.

Hopefully he'll grow up and learn some manners.

[estirose]

I hope so too. I think he's pretty young and hasn't gotten to realize that the world is much wider than he knows. That people can, and do, write stuff that's not something he likes and he can't force them not to. (Not that us older folk can't be hard-set in our ways, but that's a result of not bothering to question.)

I once had an attitude that slash was squicky too. But as years passed by, I became more comfortable with it, looked at my own beliefs, and basically started writing it more and more. (And, though most people didn't know this, I hated PR until very late Zeo and thought it was stupid and a waste of time.) So, there's hope he'll change.

[reka]

Sometimes I complain about pairings that I see in fic to friends or something, but I can't imagine telling the author that it's wrong to write that. I read a Holocaust AU for a fandom I'm not in out of boredom, which I find rather tasteless and offensive, and in the end I found it rather upsetting. But it was really my fault for reading a fic that walks that narrow line, and I can't fault the author for writing it. I just think it's tasteless. But hey, at least the author clearly identified it as a Holocaust AU.

I hope this person realizes it before he gets to be your age, even. :)

[estirose]

Yes. I shamefully didn't really question things until a few years ago; following along and not questioning/thinking about what you believe is sometimes really easy to do. In fact, I think my family (my mom's side, that is; my dad's side, before my dad's generation, tended to be notoriously dogmatic) was wondering what took me so long to start asking questions. As far as they are concerned, as long as I can explain why I feel x way, that's what matters.

(I think my mother is amused that I now am a member of the Unitarian Universalist Association, which tends to attract those who don't like to be told what to believe and don't have a problem with critically re-examining their own beliefs from time to time. There's a reason why Unitarians are known as slightly hippyish, slightly bureaucratic, scholarly folks who drink tons of (free-trade) coffee.)

[reka]

My mom's an agnostic Jew and my dad was raised in pretty much the least dogmatic Protestant denomination I know of, and they'd probably ridicule me if I didn't question. They are so upset that my brother keeps semi-kosher. I mean, I never would, but it's my brother's choice to give up delicious delicious pork for a sense of community membership. I mean, I think that's a common drive for people, and I don't really think it's my place to judge him for seeking that through Judaism, although I never would. And that isn't just because I like pork and shellfish.

[estirose]

It's kind of strange, isn't it? To give people the right and freedom to question means that sometimes they come to conclusions that one doesn't agree with, and adopt things that seem unnecessarily restrictive to one. It's not an easy thing.

[megaptera]

That's ff.net for you. :P Seriously, that's all the reviewers do, is gripe. There is a subspecies of them that go around trashing slash stories, probably as some sort of passive-aggressive cowardly way of being anti-gay. Ditch the site, you'll feel better.

[estirose]

I'm very close to doing that, but mostly because of its technical issues. Most of my reviews are pretty positive (some of them need to learn how to spell, but at least their meaning is obvious). Generally, I'm well-enough known in most of the fandoms that I post in that most people have the sense not to do this to me. (And if they read my profile, they realize that I was writing fics before many of them were born.)

But there is a problem that it does attract the very young folk that don't realize that not everybody believes as they do and what they're saying is not considered nice. (I was very sheltered when I was growing up, so I recognize the problem.)

[psyco_chick32]

A few days late to the party, because second_batgirl pointed me this way: I've been watching them froth and lose themselves over such stupid things; the Anon who posts as "Hog" started off as laughable and now I just facepalm. They read to me as so incredibly young; I almost want to be there when the hit our age and suddenly go "Oh, wait, wow that really sucked."

That said, I noticed a few people actually making informed comments on Spike's fics (the anons bashing all the while, while Spike actually had a response that sounded like he's almost a teenager) and he's taken down the "Don't let gay marriage be legal! Do your part to stop it!" bit from his profile - so I give him .000006% of a point.

Finally, I'm pretty sure I don't handle flamers the way I'm supposed to. I turned off anon comments (I rarely get any anon as it is), preemptively blocked him and some bluepink chick I can't remember the name of, and now want to write and post lots of slash. Just to prove that they can't keep people from writing stuff they want to, and stuff they enjoy.

[estirose]

I've avoided it, because so many of the supporting comments fill me with RAEG (I am having moments of "you knew the girls were lesbians how?!?"). The boy doesn't seem to understand why it's a bad idea to bash someone's pairing. He and the others can't step back and realize that not everybody believes as they do and they can't force that.

I'm considering blocking both of them myself, and fully support more slashfic!